SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

Karxrida

Shadowbringer
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Somewhat related: What does Strength as a move actually entail thematically? For 6 Generations it was only learnable by TM, and in Gen 8 it was put in the natural movepools of some Pokemon you'd associate brute force with like Mudsdale, Bewear, and Copperajah.

The complication here is that in Gen 7 it was only naturally learned by Machamp, and the description across many games including Gen 8 describes it as a Punch, when 2/5 natural learning lines don't have arms (and Pinsir seems more like it'd fight with its head than punching things). Also, while the "push, stop, push, stop" animation makes sense with this, it's funny to imagine the Boulders being punched into place Chris Redfield style.
I guess it's just supposed to be a brute strength push? Hence the name. It's Normal-type instead of Fighting because there's no finesse or technique to it. Just moving rocks, any normie that lifts enough can do that.

The punch thing is probably some weird translation snafu, especially considering the move isn't boosted by Iron Fist.
 
I guess it's just supposed to be a brute strength push? Hence the name. It's Normal-type instead of Fighting because there's no finesse or technique to it. Just moving rocks, any normie that lifts enough can do that.

The punch thing is probably some weird translation snafu, especially considering the move isn't boosted by Iron Fist.
Now I'm curious so let's see...the Japanese descriptions would be these I think
第二世代・ルビー・サファイア・エメラルド
ぜんしんに すごいちからを ためて てきを こうげき
ファイアレッド・リーフグリーン
こんしんの ちからで あいてを なぐりつけて こうげきをする。 おもい いわを おすことも できる。
第四世代
こんしんの ちからで あいてを なぐりつけて こうげきする。おもい いわを おすことも できる。
第五世代・第六世代
こんしんの ちからで あいてを なぐりつけて こうげきする。おもたい いわを おすことも できる。
(漢字) こん身の 力で 相手を なぐりつけて 攻撃する。重たい 岩を 押すことも できる。
第七世代・ソード・シールド・第九世代
こんしんの ちからで あいてを なぐりつけて こうげきする。
(漢字) こん身の 力で 相手を なぐりつけて 攻撃する。
ブリリアントダイヤモンド・シャイニングパール
こんしんの ちからで あいてを なぐりつけて こうげきする。ポケッチの ひでんわざの ひとつ。
(漢字) こん身の 力で 相手を なぐりつけて 攻撃する。ポケッチの 秘伝技の 一つ。
And DeepL translation puts them as
Second Generation, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald
Build up tremendous power to attack with your whole body!
Fire Red, Leaf Green
This creature strikes by knocking down enemies with its powerful kinetic energy. Can also throw a heavy bomb.
Generation IV
Strikes by striking with the power of his koshin. Can also throw a heavy bomb.
Generation V, Generation VI
Strikes by knocking down enemies with its supernatural powers. It can also throw a heavy bomb.
(Kanji) This creature attacks by knocking opponents down with its supernatural power. It can also push heavy rocks.
Generation VII, Sword, Shield, Generation IX
Attacks by using its supernatural power to knock opponents down.
(Kanji) It attacks by using its supernatural power to knock down its opponent.
Brilliant Diamond, Shining Pearl
(Kanji) Strike by bludgeoning your opponent with your physique's power. This is one of Pokétch's secret moves.
(Kanji) Strikes by knocking the opponent down with its supernatural power. One of Pokétch's secret moves.
This is still machine translation so obviously it can be prone to errors ("can also throw a heavy bomb" lmao), but yeah doesn't really mention punches.

So looking at the english translations again

StadStad2A very powerful Normal-type attack. Also used for moving obstacles like boulders.
GSCA powerful physical attack.
RSEBuilds enormous power, then slams the foe.
FRLGThe foe is slugged at maximum power. Can also be used to move boulders.
Colo.XDBuilds enormous power, then slams the target.
DPPtHGSSThe foe is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power. It can also be used to move boulders.
PBRThe foe is hit with a punch thrown at maximum power.
BWB2W2The target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power. This move can also be used to move boulders.
XYORASThe target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power. This can also be used to move heavy boulders.
SMUSUMPE
SwShLA
SV
The target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power.
BDSPThe target is slugged with a punch thrown at maximum power. It’s also one of the Pokétch’s hidden moves.

I think maybe what happened here (assuming the machine translation is right) is back in FRLG they went with "Slugged at maximum power" as a way to retain the flavor of FRLG's description while still retaining the character limit.
Then in gen 4, they decided to add more spice by specifying how it was slugged, which could conjure images of a punch.
Then they just kept that forever.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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iirc the people were terrified because the Pokemon had literally come back from the dead. 150 years ago they weren’t as understanding as they were recently in Kitakami.
Except the Beast Trio appeared soon after the Tower burned down, would anyone even had thought "oh, those three were Pokemon who perished in the flames".

Though, saying that brings up another possibility: An important building was just destroyed by phenomenal circumstances and then these three strange Pokemon show up in the ruins, each seemingly bearing an element that destroyed the tower. In that scenario I can see some people thinking "hey, those Pokemon destroyed the tower!" and attack the Beast Trio on that mistaken assumption (boy, the people who jumped to that conclusion probably felt stupid afterwards). Another stray thought: Being it was Lugia's tower that burnt down and it was Ho-Oh who revived the beasts, I wonder if anyone at the time thought Ho-Oh may have been responsible. Lugia & Ho-Oh's relation to one another has never really been clear cut, we've seen artwork & quick animations of them battling but as far as I can recall those are non-canon and made for rule of cool.

:dipplin:Dipplin being two Applin might be why the Eviolite works on these.:eviolite:
If that's the case, GF, we have some Pokemon who have a complaint:
:xy/dugtrio::xy/magneton::xy/metagross::xy/barbaracle:

:sv/maushold:
"Wait, so we have a kid[citation needed] and suddenly can't have double defense? How does that work?"

However, every so often I like to drive myself nuts by wondering where New Tork City in the Genesect movie is meant to be exactly, since it's quite clearly downtown NYC which is where Castelia City already is. Does Unova just have a second NYC somewhere no one talks about?
Well, if we're to disregard when the movie was released (as Ash & co. were in the middle of the Decolore Island arc), what must absolutely have happened in the anime at this point is that Ash has gotten back Charizard & N is no longer with them. In the episode where N leaves they're in a location near Dragonspiral Tower... and next episode they're back in Nuvema Town with an implied small time skip. Yeah... this doesn't work.

Like, the only place I can think of is below Aspertia City but that would mean Ash & co. would have to backtrack a long way and seemingly no reason but just to visit New Tork City.

Going to have to go with MST3K mantra here. The writers just didn't care. They wanted a movie based in New York City but, for whatever reason, didn't want it to be Castelia City. If it bothers you that much, it's below Aspertia City. We don't know how much time had passed between N leaving and Ash & co. getting back to Nuvema Town, they just spent a week or so exploring the far-off corners of Unova.

I've always just headcanoned that the Undella Sea is a fairly narrow channel and there's more land on the eastern side of it that connects to the mainland (which would fit with it being called a sea rather than "the ocean"). Otherwise it looks like in this universe Long Island sank beneath the waves and was wiped off the map.
Well we got to have someplace to put Blueberry Academy.

"Blueberry Academy is dedicated to all the lives that were lost in the Great Island Sink. It had to be done. Their sacrifice was not in vain"

Let me guess, you watch soccer and hate Real.
I think it was a politics joke? Madrid is Spain's Capital thus where its government HQ is.

Then explain How is that possible if nO gallade, gardevoir, delibird, jigglypuff, misdreavus and suffit have ever be seen in area zero. Noter concerning thing, the explorators drew a picture of wgat they seen. There were undiscovered species; like for exemple tge gorilla looking like donkey kong. There was nacklstack, pawmo and stuff alredy didcovered tho
First, I'm going to guess English isn't your first language? I apologize if I sound rude, but sometimes your posts are hard to read and I don't fully understand what you're trying to say. Like this post I can get enough context clues on what you're asking/pointing out, but your previous post I have a hard time following. If English isn't your first language I will say you're good enough at it, though at the same time if you're going to explain more complex ideas you may want to go over your post a few times to try and correct as many grammar mistakes as you can. Thank you. :blobthumbsup:

Second, it's only a theory that all the Paradox Pokemon are based on Pokemon that can be found in Area Zero (including parts the player can't visit).

Like, here's a counter theory that explains why some Paradox Pokemon are based on Pokemon no found in Area Zero. A majority of the Paradox Pokemon were "discovered" by the Professor. The only one "known" beforehand was the Donphan Paradox, and that was just a vague sketch of what the artist THOUGHT they saw. Sticking to the theory that the Paradox Pokemon are created via the Professor's wild imagination: all the Paradox Pokemon are based on Pokemon which had a personal connection to the Professor. For example, Heath's work was very important to the Professor, therefore the two Pokemon noted in the book, the vague Donphan creature sketch and Heath's Cyclizar, held significance thus were two Pokemon that had Paradoxes made of them. Obviously the rest of connections we don't know (Arven may know some, but I imagine the Professor has seen and worked with a lot of Pokemon even before entering Area Zero that Arven wouldn't be aware of), but being I doubt we'll ever fully learn the full history of the Paradox Pokemon it doesn't matter. Like, if this theory is true, at best maybe we find a journal from the Professor writing down their thoughts on the newly discovered Paradox and they slightly remanence about a Pokemon it reminds them of before moving on. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that important.

what on earth are you doing in that academy where something in Paldea is causing such big issue that yo uhave to return to a Unovan Academy and not return the Paldean students back to their school.
Curious if it may also have something to do with the new Paradox Pokemon. The Professor AI is gone and along with it the key to activating the Time Machine, yet we have these Paradox Legendary Trio suddenly showing up. And, not just any Legendary, the two Legendary Trios which serve as guardians for the environment. Is there something being done at the Blueberry Academy which is making something connected to the Terastal Phenomenon go "I need to create protectors!"?

I'm also curious what happened with the Crater that necessitates them returning to Blueberry in Unova instead of going back to Paldea (and presumably taking you with them) to investigate... the Crater. (...)

It gives the sense it's stuff they need to study, maybe compare against stuff in the Unova Terrarium (introducing Crystals to biomes?) but not really dangerous or an emergency (yet, I expect Kieran's going to do something ill-advised with the benign set-up).
KieranGauntlet.png


Bears, while omnivores, have skin much akin to carnivorous predators. Their skin is loose and doesn't hold tightly to the body like ours does. This is due to how often they fight with other predators and their own species. This type of loose skin allows them to receive much more minor injuries from claws and teeth as the skin is ripped or torn open while the muscle and other tissue underneath stays firm.

I doubt that Snorlax has this same type of skin placement as it's a bear that only eats berries and lounges all day. It has no need to hunt or compete with carnivorous Pokemon.


Do Voltorb's poles reverse upon evolution to Electrode? Both forms of Voltorb switch to either a more "positive" or "negative" personality upon evolving and their colors also flip and I feel like this would be a funny reason for both
Good as theory as any. Bulbapedia also suggests it may be a pun on "positive" and "negative" charge.
 
:gs/haunter::rs/haunter::dp/haunter::bw/haunter:

What was up with Haunter's glowing hands? They appeared in the mainline games up to Gen 5 (though it's worth noting that they didn't appear in HGSS, and Gen 5 reused its DP sprite) but they never appeared in any of the 3D games including stuff like Stadium and Battle Revolution, it's never been depicted in any official art of Haunter, and as far as I know it's never been a thing in the show either. Plenty of Pokemon had weird design quirks that got phased out as time passed (usually involving the color of a body part or number of fingers) but Haunter's hand aura feels far more distinct than any other early-design weirdness, and it also lasted much longer than any of them. Most of the other stuff was removed in FRLG or DP, but Haunter had glowing hands as late as Platinum (or B2W2 depending on how you feel about Gen 5's weird sprite reuse).
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
What was up with Haunter's glowing hands? They appeared in the mainline games up to Gen 5 (though it's worth noting that they didn't appear in HGSS, and Gen 5 reused its DP sprite) but they never appeared in any of the 3D games including stuff like Stadium and Battle Revolution, it's never been depicted in any official art of Haunter, and as far as I know it's never been a thing in the show either.
The following is all speculation:
I see Haunter's glowing hands being akin to Pokemon sprites that have a dynamic pose. While not initially part of the Pokemon's design, it gives the Pokemon some character. Stock art & 3D models are so focused on making sure you get an good & accurate look at the Pokemon, and since you can reuse those (especially 3D models) it doesn't give much of a chance to have the Pokemon be doing anything interesting. Sprites had a bit of leeway in this regard; they didn't expect the sprite to give the player a good look at the Pokemon, that's what the stock art is for, thus the sprite artist could put the Pokemon in an interesting pose or using its power.
As for why they chose to have Haunter's hand glow to show this off, well just in general its a ghost-y thing to do. While no Dex entry directly mentions its hand glowing, there are some entries from both the core games & side games which catch my attention:
Platinum & Gen V: It likes to lurk in the dark and tap shoulders with a gaseous hand. Its touch causes endless shuddering.
Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia: It attacks by spitting out orbs imbued with loathsome emotions.
Pokemon Ranger: Guardian Signs: It shoots out orbs imbued with loathsome emotions that make Pokémon Paused.
So, Haunter's hands are made of "gas" and it can create energy attacks made from "loathsome emotions". Could one or both of these things be a reason for the glowing? Of course, note in the Ranger games its hands do not glow, but it was the only pre-Gen VI mention of some kind of "energy" (or at least something which could be stretched into that role).

Who knows if the glowing hand will ever return. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something done by one artist and future sprite artists saw it and thought "oh, well if they gave it glowing hands I should too". After taking a look around, the only other reference to Haunter having glowing hands I could find is the FRLG TCG set card; it uses Haunter's stock art but the hands are given a red glow, possibly a reference to the game sprites. There's also the Lost Origins card, but the entire Haunter is glowing, not just its hands.
 
:gs/haunter::rs/haunter::dp/haunter::bw/haunter:

What was up with Haunter's glowing hands? They appeared in the mainline games up to Gen 5 (though it's worth noting that they didn't appear in HGSS, and Gen 5 reused its DP sprite) but they never appeared in any of the 3D games including stuff like Stadium and Battle Revolution, it's never been depicted in any official art of Haunter, and as far as I know it's never been a thing in the show either. Plenty of Pokemon had weird design quirks that got phased out as time passed (usually involving the color of a body part or number of fingers) but Haunter's hand aura feels far more distinct than any other early-design weirdness, and it also lasted much longer than any of them. Most of the other stuff was removed in FRLG or DP, but Haunter had glowing hands as late as Platinum (or B2W2 depending on how you feel about Gen 5's weird sprite reuse).
Looks like Haunter had glowing hands for the same reason Mickey Mouse had white gloves: contrast. The outline allows the player to see that yes, this specter has hands.
Mickey Mouse Didn't Always Wear White Gloves. Here's Why He Was Forced to Cover His Bare Hands - Disney Dining
According to Disney Fandom, Walt Disney ultimately added the white gloves to his earlier characters so that the motions of their hands could be seen more easily against the backdrop of the rest of their bodies, especially since animation began as a black-and-white only venture, and the contrast added by the white gloves was often necessary for storytelling purposes.
Characters’ hands often created problems for animators–and not just Disney’s team. The positioning of fingers and hands of many characters was often hard to see. The white opera gloves created the distinction needed to allow the audience to see the positioning and dexterity in the characters’ hands.
 
Pokemon Causality.png

Dropping this in the chat and running away.
pokemon theory i just thought of: new pokemon appear in the pokemon universe when they're designed in this one. they're created ex nilho but they have retroactive realness; they weren't here yesterday, but today they've always existed.
pokemon researchers have had to suss this out on their own over decades, and it's a really unpopular theory, made worse by the fact that no one can come up with a better one. from their perspective pokemon generate spontaneously but in both chronological directions, and the similarities of many pokemon seem to be detived from a conscious and creative understanding of the world--their world, though? what other world could there be?. there are ice cream pokemon and pokeball pokemon and sword pokemon and trash bag pokemon.
there are so many pokemon with both wings and a beak. is this like swords? is there an ur-flying type that this class evokes? there are so many canine pokemon. but what is a canine? is there such a thing? there's only one set of sword pokemon, right. one tea-set line. is *feline* a coherent category? would the ur-feline have two legs or four? why do so many pokemon have humanlike bodyplans-- but then again, why so few?
pichu has always been the prior form of pikachu. why didn't it get counted in order? why do we call it that instead of saying pikachu is the middle evolution of the pichu line? why can so many trainers remember finding this out well into their journeys? why didn't ash start with one?
this is why pokemon researchers do a lot of labwork, drink heavily, and use ten year olds for field research. you can't have an existential crisis if you don't even know what time is yet.
 
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Hey, did you know that in our world there's no valid taxonomical classification for fish?
either all mammals are fish or fish don't exist

when Pokemon was first released fish were a type of animal that had been scientifically studied for centuries

now as far as science is concerned, fish do not exist



also, dinosaurs never went extinct
It was also fairly recently that insects were reclassified to be a subset of crustaceans, I think.
 
Hey, did you know that in our world there's no valid taxonomical classification for fish?
either all mammals are fish or fish don't exist

when Pokemon was first released fish were a type of animal that had been scientifically studied for centuries

now as far as science is concerned, fish do not exist
That might explain why Clefairy, Togepi, and Snubbull used to be considered Normal-type Pokémon instead of Fairy-type.
 
Terastalizing before it was "cool"

For what it's worth, this could have major ramifications for a future Johto game since Whitney's Gym is Clefairy-themed. Miltank remains a Normal-Type though, so this could go either way.
It would be pretty easy to pivot her into Sentret or Wigglytuff, Normal doesn't lack for small cute mons. Wiggly specifically would make her a diabolical 3rd gym, since fighting stops being a solid answer to her team.

The other way, making her a Fairy gym leader, seems less likely, because Miltank is SO associated with her, though they could use the excuse to give it an alt form to match Tauros.
 
I think the simplest thing they do is just change the line to be "she's a normal and fairy type gym leader" since her gym trainers have things like Snubbull & Jigglypuff


Actually the easiest thing is just don't acknowledge it. Brock is explicitly a rock leader but his trainer has a Sandshrew & Diglett (honestly I thought someone referred to him as a Rock &Ground leader explicitly but I guess not). They even kept that in GS, FRLG and HGSS, only changing it in Let's Go.
e: Oh actually they did change the HGSS trainers too, go figure
 
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whitney could just remain cute-themed and normal-typed - i don't think clefairy is as important to her identity as the general concept of cuteness and miltank being her ace. the gym could very easily be jigglypuff-shaped, and the snubbull and the clefairy replaced by stuff like teddiursa, even chansey, etc. meanwhile, changing it to a fairy gym only gives them four evolutionary lines to work with.
 
Wasn't Jasmine a Rock-type Gym Leader before switching to the then newly discovered Steel? A specialist of two types wouldn't be too Farfetch'd.
Even in the neighboring Kanto region, Lance and Agatha for example use a lot of Flying- and Poison-type Pokémon respectively.
I don't think they ever mentioned her being a rock type leader; I think the manga might have done something with that (pretending her Steelix was all covered in Rock during a tournament?) but its the only thing I can think of
 
Her gym has no trainers in the original and the "trainers" in her HGSS gym just thank you for helping and wish you good luck. After you beat the Gym they just give hints to go to Mahogany and Lake of Rage
Gentleman Preston in the Lighthouse will say this if you talk to him after defeating him: “Jasmine used to use Rock Pokémon like ONIX.”

(He’s one of the two Trainers who, in HGSS, relocate from the Lighthouse to the Olivine Gym after you get Amphy all fixed up, revealing that those two were Jasmine’s Gym Trainers, though they won’t actually battle you in the Gym. Seemingly they went to the Lighthouse because that’s where she was.)

B2W2 even has a callback to the trivia about Jasmine specializing in Rock types. There’s a man in the PWT building who gives you a short blurb about each of the Gym Leaders / Champions you just battled, and for Jasmine he says, “She’s a compassionate woman of Steel! She’s the Gym Leader of Olivine City. She participates in Contests in the Sinnoh region. I heard she used to use Rock-type Pokémon!”
 
Gentleman Preston in the Lighthouse will say this if you talk to him after defeating him: “Jasmine used to use Rock Pokémon like ONIX.”

(He’s one of the two Trainers who, in HGSS, relocate from the Lighthouse to the Olivine Gym after you get Amphy all fixed up, revealing that those two were Jasmine’s Gym Trainers, though they won’t actually battle you in the Gym. Seemingly they went to the Lighthouse because that’s where she was.)

B2W2 even has a callback to the trivia about Jasmine specializing in Rock types. There’s a man in the PWT building who gives you a short blurb about each of the Gym Leaders / Champions you just battled, and for Jasmine he says, “She’s a compassionate woman of Steel! She’s the Gym Leader of Olivine City. She participates in Contests in the Sinnoh region. I heard she used to use Rock-type Pokémon!”
That'd explain why I never saw it, I almost never speak to trainers after I beat them.
I likewise never went back to the lighthouse, so I never caught the trivia that he (& the girl) don't show up there since they'r ein the gym! That's super neat.
 

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